17 minutes in, Charlie said: "Jewish supremacists...created Christianity and Islam."
I mentioned before that while agreeing with Charlie on so many things in the past, I disagreed with his assessment since at least the second half of 2014, that Jewish supremacists were nearly every movement, which most alternative researchers don't even allege that they were.
I think the best approach for me is to raise a few points here each episode I hear them, and then bring them all up when I call into the show.
As for Christianity being a Jewish supremacist creation, it's true that it was created by Jews who thought Jesus would rule the world, as described in Revelation, and that he was culturally very Jewish, like when he compared that Samaritan woman to a dog, but they were a hated minority within Judaism early on, as we see from the Gospels, and aren't in the spirit of today's Jewish supremacists in that they were also very religiously based and not just ethnocentric.
And while Paul was a Jew and propelled that sect of Judaism into the Christianity of the early Roman times, he was no Jewish supremacist in the mould of the Sanhedrin and Pharisees who stayed that way. The book of Galatians, considered the most authentic book by Paul, shows his argument with Peter about fearing his association with the Gentiles once fellow Jews showed up.
Even though Paul succeeded in Judaizing the Western world to a big extent, it was a pretty odd way to do it for an unrepetant Jewish supremacist, in watering down so many of the teachings of Pharasaic Judaism, in teaching circumcision of the heart and saying that living by the Law is now unnecessary.
Christianity was indeed created as a WMD used to destroy the Roman Empire-hated enemy of the jew at this time. The evidence is overwhelming. In 3000 years of classical Judaism, jews have never reached out to gentiles on a religious level. Judaism is a not a universalist or evangelical religion like Christianity and Islam are. They don't go out looking for converts. So in 3000 years of Judaism they never reached out to gentiles except for one time. That was a time when jews suffered at the hands of gentiles more than any other in history. NOW of all times jews want to give their hated enemy this "gift"? Smarten up.
You said "but they were a hated minority within Judaism early on, as we see from the Gospels". The Gospels are unreliable as historical sources if we want to know about early Christianity. They are chock full of discrepancies, inconsistencies, contradictions, incorrect dates, locations, errors. There is a very good reason why they are so full of errors. They were written at least decades and probably centuries after the events described in them would have taken place. So whoever wrote them was not an eyewitness. Not only that but they were written in a different country than these alleged events took place and in a different language than Jesus and his disciples would have spoken in. They are simply not reliable historical sources. They are fine for theological arguments but not literal history.
You said "Even though Paul succeeded in Judaizing the Western world to a big extent, it was a pretty odd way to do it for an unrepetant Jewish supremacist, in watering down so many of the teachings of Pharasaic Judaism, in teaching circumcision of the heart and saying that living by the Law is now unnecessary"
No it wasn't an odd way to do anything. If you are going to impose this suicidal form of proto-communism onto Roman gentiles you cant just walk up to them and say "sell everything you have and give it to the poor" and "if someone sues you for this, give him something else for free too" and "don't resist and evil person". No you cant just walk up to gentiles and start telling them that idiotic and suicidal advice. You have to figure out a way to doctor it up and sell it.
Curt, the Gospels are the few documents we have purporting to document what Jesus said, so without them, we can't understand much about him, according to what Christians actually believe. I am well aware of all the problems with them, and have called into the show to speak about them in the past.
About all we know about Jesus before the Gospels is from what are considered the authentic letters of Paul, and we don't know a whole lot about what he actually taught.
Your last statement about Paul seems to presume that he was insincere about his change of heart regarding Christians, but I don't see any particular evidence of that anymore than Christians can say with certainty that he was 100% sincere.
All we have to go by for his motives are his own authentic letters, and it seems to me that it's just conjecture that Paul taught what he did out of some grand scheme to Judaize the Gentiles, in light of what I had already pointed out.
I do think Paul brought his Judaism into his activities, no doubt about that, but I don't see a convincing case for him doing it with sneaky intentions to the extent of what you are alleging, with some fake conversion and making things up to trick Gentiles.
"the Gospels are the few documents we have purporting to document what Jesus said, so without them, we can't understand much about him"
Im sure you are aware that there dozens of different copies of the Gospels and they all differ from one another. This is a problem. We do have plenty of historical knowledge about common/poor jews in 1st century Palestine though from good historical sources. Did dirt poor jews from rural Galilee walk on luke warm water? Did they care at all about the well being of gentiles? Did they want the jewish law abolished? The Jesus of faith is a walking talking contradiction of what the historical Jesus would have been like if he existed and I think there is a good chance he did.
"About all we know about Jesus before the Gospels is from what are considered the authentic letters of Paul"
I would agree with that and also add that I wouldn't trust a god damned thing a jew wrote. Especially in the context of giving this "gift" of Christianity to the gentiles right around the time of the Jewish/Roman wars. I don't care if is name is Paul or Saul or Josephus.
"I don't see any particular evidence of that anymore than Christians can say with certainty that he was 100% sincere."
All I was saying there is to take anything that jew says with a grain of salt and realize that whatever he says is not there to benefit gentiles in any way.
"All we have to go by for his motives are his own authentic letters, and it seems to me that it's just conjecture that Paul taught what he did out of some grand scheme to Judaize the Gentiles, in light of what I had already pointed out."
OK let me put it to you this way. What was the attitude of the Romans toward jews? At best they thought they were weirdos who didn't do work one day a week and at worst they knew that jews were segregationists who wouldn't even sit down to eat with gentiles. If you are a jew and wanting to feed a new poisonous and self destructive religion to your enemy, you are going to have to take into account that some of them know that Judaism is a racist and supremacist ideology. Certainly the upper crust Romans who could afford the education knew this and Im sure some of the common Romans knew it too. So you are going to have to make it look like this new religion isn't like the old school version of Judaism or the Roman gentiles are going to see right through your bullshit.
Christianity turned the Roman Empire on its head and that's exactly what it was designed to do. Read the great British historian Edward Gibbon. He concludes that Christianity was a major factor that contributed to the fall of Rome. Of course it was. You have to realize that todays Christians practice this kind of feel good/Joel Osteen brand of Christianity. Christians today don't follow the New Testament. But in first century Rome, Christians did follow that idiotic and suicidal advice exactly to the letter. When a jew walked up to a Roman gentile and said "give no thought for the morrow" and don't hoard material wealth and a plethora of other terrible advice that would cause the collapse of society if followed, those gentiles took it very seriously. The Romans prior to Christianity warping their minds were clear headed, efficient and business like, not brainwashed zombies. Not only was Christianity destructive to their individual lives, but it had a major impact on society as a whole. Nero and other Roman leaders were having to jail and sometimes kill these insane lunatic Christians in the same way the boy had to shoot Old Yeller when he got rabies. This is tragic.
If you are a European, you have no business entangling yourself in a Middle Eastern religion of any kind. I don't care if its Islam, Christianity or Judaism. The European couldn't have less in common with a Middle Easterner. But aside from that fact, if it has jew fingerprints all over it, any gentile needs to be running like hell in the opposite direction.
Now, as for Charlie's claim about Islam, I haven't heard any verifiable evidence for Jewish supremacists creating Islam.
And before listening to Charlie's show back on WARN, I had never heard anyone claim that the first Caliph of Islam was Jewish.
If anyone wants to claim Jewish supremacists created Islam, I'd like to hear it. The creation of Islam was obviously detrimental to Roman Catholic Christianity hegemony, but pointing to documented evidence like Jews historically faring better in Muslim countries in nearly all cases compared to Christian countries doesn't say anything about whether it was created by Jewish supremacists.
Islam had a big Jewish influence to the extent that it recognizes Jewish prophets as being from the one God, but it also had just as big pagan influences, so without specific evidence, one could leap to the conclusion that it was just as much a pagan supremacist creation as well.
"I do think Paul brought his Judaism into his activities, no doubt about that, but I don't see a convincing case for him doing it with sneaky intentions to the extent of what you are alleging, with some fake conversion and making things up to trick Gentiles."
Whoever "Paul" was would have been a Hellenized jew living in the diaspora and had a very strong knowledge in Judaism. In order to buy into any of his bullshit writings, you have to believe 2 things:
-That he isn't a jew who hates gentiles just like every other jew at this time.
-That he really did see a supernatural event take place on the road to Damascus.
Both of those are the most unlikely scenarios possible. They are possible but the most highly unlikely.
Why would you want to go out of your way to believe something so dumb? No offense.
I know Charlie and a few others say that Islam was created to radicalize the Arabs so they could be used to kick the shit out of the Byzantine Christians who were at the time "persecuting" the poor innocent jews. That could be true.
Whether its true or not, have you ever cracked open a q'uran? I have. It has huge huge chunks of the old testament in it. Its a jewish creation whether directly or indirectly.
The Jewish lore in the Qur'an is there because of its monotheism, which is what Muhammad apparently believed in, even before announcing his prophethood.
Which Jews would've stirred up the Arabs against the Byzantines in particular? The Byzantines were already locked in battles with the Persians and the whole Arabian Peninsula was uninteresting and an unlikely place for a revolution to emanate.
The only Jewish contacts Muhammad had that I'm aware of are some guy they alleged help him concoct verses, but then one has to wonder why the others are similar in style and some are in context to have been revealed suddenly, presumably when that guy wasn't around and may have been dead later on, and then the ones in Medina, of which two tribes were exiled and another was killed.
Now you could say that was planned that way to make Jews look like victims, but the Jews were minor players in the area at that time, compared to the Byzantine and Persian empires and the more immediate power and threat of the pagan Meccans.
Islam did not exist at the time perriod I am speaking of. What do you mean by the statement "Jews were minor players in the area"? Byzantoum passed Nuremberg style laws that prevented jews from becoming politicians and financiers and professors. Jews were wrecking Byzantium the same way theyve wrecked America. Outsiders that arent jew wise would look at America and say "the jews arent much of a factor. They seem to only be in like New York." I honestly dont care if they created Islam. I do care that they created Christianity to derail and destroy the Roman Empire. Which is exactly what they did as I have demonstrated.
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17 minutes in, Charlie said: "Jewish supremacists...created Christianity and Islam."
I mentioned before that while agreeing with Charlie on so many things in the past, I disagreed with his assessment since at least the second half of 2014, that Jewish supremacists were nearly every movement, which most alternative researchers don't even allege that they were.
I think the best approach for me is to raise a few points here each episode I hear them, and then bring them all up when I call into the show.
As for Christianity being a Jewish supremacist creation, it's true that it was created by Jews who thought Jesus would rule the world, as described in Revelation, and that he was culturally very Jewish, like when he compared that Samaritan woman to a dog, but they were a hated minority within Judaism early on, as we see from the Gospels, and aren't in the spirit of today's Jewish supremacists in that they were also very religiously based and not just ethnocentric.
And while Paul was a Jew and propelled that sect of Judaism into the Christianity of the early Roman times, he was no Jewish supremacist in the mould of the Sanhedrin and Pharisees who stayed that way. The book of Galatians, considered the most authentic book by Paul, shows his argument with Peter about fearing his association with the Gentiles once fellow Jews showed up.
Even though Paul succeeded in Judaizing the Western world to a big extent, it was a pretty odd way to do it for an unrepetant Jewish supremacist, in watering down so many of the teachings of Pharasaic Judaism, in teaching circumcision of the heart and saying that living by the Law is now unnecessary.
Christianity was indeed created as a WMD used to destroy the Roman Empire-hated enemy of the jew at this time. The evidence is overwhelming. In 3000 years of classical Judaism, jews have never reached out to gentiles on a religious level. Judaism is a not a universalist or evangelical religion like Christianity and Islam are. They don't go out looking for converts. So in 3000 years of Judaism they never reached out to gentiles except for one time. That was a time when jews suffered at the hands of gentiles more than any other in history. NOW of all times jews want to give their hated enemy this "gift"? Smarten up.
You said "but they were a hated minority within Judaism early on, as we see from the Gospels". The Gospels are unreliable as historical sources if we want to know about early Christianity. They are chock full of discrepancies, inconsistencies, contradictions, incorrect dates, locations, errors. There is a very good reason why they are so full of errors. They were written at least decades and probably centuries after the events described in them would have taken place. So whoever wrote them was not an eyewitness. Not only that but they were written in a different country than these alleged events took place and in a different language than Jesus and his disciples would have spoken in. They are simply not reliable historical sources. They are fine for theological arguments but not literal history.
You said "Even though Paul succeeded in Judaizing the Western world to a big extent, it was a pretty odd way to do it for an unrepetant Jewish supremacist, in watering down so many of the teachings of Pharasaic Judaism, in teaching circumcision of the heart and saying that living by the Law is now unnecessary"
No it wasn't an odd way to do anything. If you are going to impose this suicidal form of proto-communism onto Roman gentiles you cant just walk up to them and say "sell everything you have and give it to the poor" and "if someone sues you for this, give him something else for free too" and "don't resist and evil person". No you cant just walk up to gentiles and start telling them that idiotic and suicidal advice. You have to figure out a way to doctor it up and sell it.
Curt, the Gospels are the few documents we have purporting to document what Jesus said, so without them, we can't understand much about him, according to what Christians actually believe. I am well aware of all the problems with them, and have called into the show to speak about them in the past.
About all we know about Jesus before the Gospels is from what are considered the authentic letters of Paul, and we don't know a whole lot about what he actually taught.
Your last statement about Paul seems to presume that he was insincere about his change of heart regarding Christians, but I don't see any particular evidence of that anymore than Christians can say with certainty that he was 100% sincere.
All we have to go by for his motives are his own authentic letters, and it seems to me that it's just conjecture that Paul taught what he did out of some grand scheme to Judaize the Gentiles, in light of what I had already pointed out.
I do think Paul brought his Judaism into his activities, no doubt about that, but I don't see a convincing case for him doing it with sneaky intentions to the extent of what you are alleging, with some fake conversion and making things up to trick Gentiles.
"the Gospels are the few documents we have purporting to document what Jesus said, so without them, we can't understand much about him"
Im sure you are aware that there dozens of different copies of the Gospels and they all differ from one another. This is a problem. We do have plenty of historical knowledge about common/poor jews in 1st century Palestine though from good historical sources. Did dirt poor jews from rural Galilee walk on luke warm water? Did they care at all about the well being of gentiles? Did they want the jewish law abolished? The Jesus of faith is a walking talking contradiction of what the historical Jesus would have been like if he existed and I think there is a good chance he did.
"About all we know about Jesus before the Gospels is from what are considered the authentic letters of Paul"
I would agree with that and also add that I wouldn't trust a god damned thing a jew wrote. Especially in the context of giving this "gift" of Christianity to the gentiles right around the time of the Jewish/Roman wars. I don't care if is name is Paul or Saul or Josephus.
"I don't see any particular evidence of that anymore than Christians can say with certainty that he was 100% sincere."
All I was saying there is to take anything that jew says with a grain of salt and realize that whatever he says is not there to benefit gentiles in any way.
"All we have to go by for his motives are his own authentic letters, and it seems to me that it's just conjecture that Paul taught what he did out of some grand scheme to Judaize the Gentiles, in light of what I had already pointed out."
OK let me put it to you this way. What was the attitude of the Romans toward jews? At best they thought they were weirdos who didn't do work one day a week and at worst they knew that jews were segregationists who wouldn't even sit down to eat with gentiles. If you are a jew and wanting to feed a new poisonous and self destructive religion to your enemy, you are going to have to take into account that some of them know that Judaism is a racist and supremacist ideology. Certainly the upper crust Romans who could afford the education knew this and Im sure some of the common Romans knew it too. So you are going to have to make it look like this new religion isn't like the old school version of Judaism or the Roman gentiles are going to see right through your bullshit.
Christianity turned the Roman Empire on its head and that's exactly what it was designed to do. Read the great British historian Edward Gibbon. He concludes that Christianity was a major factor that contributed to the fall of Rome. Of course it was. You have to realize that todays Christians practice this kind of feel good/Joel Osteen brand of Christianity. Christians today don't follow the New Testament. But in first century Rome, Christians did follow that idiotic and suicidal advice exactly to the letter. When a jew walked up to a Roman gentile and said "give no thought for the morrow" and don't hoard material wealth and a plethora of other terrible advice that would cause the collapse of society if followed, those gentiles took it very seriously. The Romans prior to Christianity warping their minds were clear headed, efficient and business like, not brainwashed zombies. Not only was Christianity destructive to their individual lives, but it had a major impact on society as a whole. Nero and other Roman leaders were having to jail and sometimes kill these insane lunatic Christians in the same way the boy had to shoot Old Yeller when he got rabies. This is tragic.
If you are a European, you have no business entangling yourself in a Middle Eastern religion of any kind. I don't care if its Islam, Christianity or Judaism. The European couldn't have less in common with a Middle Easterner. But aside from that fact, if it has jew fingerprints all over it, any gentile needs to be running like hell in the opposite direction.
Now, as for Charlie's claim about Islam, I haven't heard any verifiable evidence for Jewish supremacists creating Islam.
And before listening to Charlie's show back on WARN, I had never heard anyone claim that the first Caliph of Islam was Jewish.
If anyone wants to claim Jewish supremacists created Islam, I'd like to hear it. The creation of Islam was obviously detrimental to Roman Catholic Christianity hegemony, but pointing to documented evidence like Jews historically faring better in Muslim countries in nearly all cases compared to Christian countries doesn't say anything about whether it was created by Jewish supremacists.
Islam had a big Jewish influence to the extent that it recognizes Jewish prophets as being from the one God, but it also had just as big pagan influences, so without specific evidence, one could leap to the conclusion that it was just as much a pagan supremacist creation as well.
"I do think Paul brought his Judaism into his activities, no doubt about that, but I don't see a convincing case for him doing it with sneaky intentions to the extent of what you are alleging, with some fake conversion and making things up to trick Gentiles."
Whoever "Paul" was would have been a Hellenized jew living in the diaspora and had a very strong knowledge in Judaism. In order to buy into any of his bullshit writings, you have to believe 2 things:
-That he isn't a jew who hates gentiles just like every other jew at this time.
-That he really did see a supernatural event take place on the road to Damascus.
Both of those are the most unlikely scenarios possible. They are possible but the most highly unlikely.
Why would you want to go out of your way to believe something so dumb? No offense.
With regard to Islam...
I know Charlie and a few others say that Islam was created to radicalize the Arabs so they could be used to kick the shit out of the Byzantine Christians who were at the time "persecuting" the poor innocent jews. That could be true.
Whether its true or not,
have you ever cracked open a q'uran? I have. It has huge huge chunks of the old testament in it. Its a jewish creation whether directly or indirectly.
The Jewish lore in the Qur'an is there because of its monotheism, which is what Muhammad apparently believed in, even before announcing his prophethood.
Which Jews would've stirred up the Arabs against the Byzantines in particular? The Byzantines were already locked in battles with the Persians and the whole Arabian Peninsula was uninteresting and an unlikely place for a revolution to emanate.
The only Jewish contacts Muhammad had that I'm aware of are some guy they alleged help him concoct verses, but then one has to wonder why the others are similar in style and some are in context to have been revealed suddenly, presumably when that guy wasn't around and may have been dead later on, and then the ones in Medina, of which two tribes were exiled and another was killed.
Now you could say that was planned that way to make Jews look like victims, but the Jews were minor players in the area at that time, compared to the Byzantine and Persian empires and the more immediate power and threat of the pagan Meccans.
Islam did not exist at the time perriod I am speaking of. What do you mean by the statement "Jews were minor players in the area"? Byzantoum passed Nuremberg style laws that prevented jews from becoming politicians and financiers and professors. Jews were wrecking Byzantium the same way theyve wrecked America. Outsiders that arent jew wise would look at America and say "the jews arent much of a factor. They seem to only be in like New York." I honestly dont care if they created Islam. I do care that they created Christianity to derail and destroy the Roman Empire. Which is exactly what they did as I have demonstrated.
Faux and Curt, you both have an amazing grasp of history. I'm learning a lot from your debate here....thanks!
Hi charlie glad to see you are back. as to paul. oh nevermind .....
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