Christopher Hitchens at his finest - some of my favourite moments by the writer who has inspired the ideals of scepticism, free inquiry, and rational thought in so many. I believe "Hitchslap" is now the proper term for the unflinching intellectual prowess displayed in these exchanges.
44 comments:
God is not what Hitchens thinks God should be, so he pitches a daily childish fit about it. Hitchens is wasting his limited time on this planet. Throwing moral indignation at God, the creator of life, is a fools game.
Only the morally bankrupt could find fault in anything Hitchens said.
If you defend any religion that espouses the tenants to be found within all 3 Abrahamic constructs;then you are a frightened,fearful and superstitious dupe. Easily swayed and controlled by the same Jewish influence to be found within all 3 theological branches.
For "morally bankrupt" to have anything but purely subjective meaning, you must have an absolute standard of right and wrong. The absolute standard can only come from God. So yes, I find Hitchens playing a fools game.
Who cares what the very dead, neocon Jewish warmonger has to say.
The absolute standard can only come from a "Concept", rather than from observed truth?
That's like saying it's ok to invade other countries,steal their land and wealth,and rape their women. Yes, It's ok, because "Gods Emissaries" on Earth and their "King" said "God" told them it was ok to do so in his name. Pretty much sums up the History of the Old Crusades. And every war ever fomented on the face of the planet.
#What a great religion Christianity is.
It means so many different things to so many different races. Yet,you can't escape from the essential Truth of it's Jewish origins. You have nothing but the words written by Jews in your Bible to confirm *their* interpretation of Historical events. And you "Believe" they are sacred truths?
You have a great penchant for illogical answers. A+.
People have done all kinds of horrible things in the name of all kinds of religions and philosophies that are NOT sanctioned by those religions and philosophies.
And God is not a concept. He is God, the absolute foundational standard of logic, rationality, and ethics. Without God you can not rationally justify the concept of a concept.
Errr...Ditto! This is the pot calling. Thanks Kettle!
I'm glad you referred to the "old" Crusade seeing that your hero was very much in favour of the "new" crusade.
Yes Mary. There is a subtle difference between the 2 events. One was for Religious reasons.- the quest to put Jerusalem under Christian control. The Other for political and material reasons- Regime change and obviously control of the Oil Fields.
But his well documented antipathy towards all 3 Abrahamic Religions for their continued propagation of Human Misery on this Planet is what I respect most about his philosophy.
Well, that was particularly hypocritical of him, considering that he was a supporter of the philosophy that has caused more 'human misery' than any other since time began: atheistic Marxism.
"For "morally bankrupt" to have anything but purely subjective meaning, you must have an absolute standard of right and wrong. The absolute standard can only come from God. So yes, I find Hitchens playing a fools game."
What is the "absolute standard of right and wrong"? And how did some men come to believe they were in communication with thee God of the cosmos that supposedly passed those standards along? Is slavery morally wrong Whooli?
Maybe he was. I'm not claiming he was any sort of paragon of Virtue. He smoked and drank prolifically - which contributed greatly to his early demise. But he also was spot on about "Religion" and it's negative effects on the evolution of mankind. I can forgive him his culturally instilled Marxism (sadly,so many were fooled into accepting that doctrine at british Univercities for decades).
His political leanings to me arn't as important as his work pointing out the illogical fallicies of religion in both historical and contempoary life. Very few people are allowed to pronounce their views publically without being censored in some way by the MSM. He countered that by setting out to entrench himself within the MSM first:Giving himself the leeway to use the tools he ended up in control of to get his mesage out. And thankfully, we have his public video and literary works to ponder now because of it.
The Horrors Of The Church and It's Holy Inquisition
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm#The Church
But you can't separate the man from his philosophy. Hitchens wasn't 'fooled' into supporting Marxism, he did it deliberately, seeking to subvert Western culture.
His hypocrisy stems from his bashing theists for being the cause of human misery and bloodshed, while at the same time espousing a very bloodthirsty philosophy himself.
Of course I can. I'm not apologising for his Political blinkers here. I am just highlighting his pronouncements and essays on Religions plural.
No important figure in history is ever perfect Mary. we have to work with the tools we find available. Sometimes from sources that are less salubrious than we might prefer.
Inquisition Myths Busted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ_xohxaLEo&feature=plcp
Hitchens is a perfect example of my theory about atheists. However intelligent and well educated they may be, they all seem to suffer from arrested development. They are like rebellious teenagers.
Hitchens's support for Marxism stemmed from his hatred for God. His lifestyle also explained a lot about him. He wanted to live as he pleased without any consequences. To that extent, you cannot separate the man from his philosophy.
If anyone told me that God doesn't exist, I would look that person in the eye and ask that person how they know.
It's looking more and more obvious that man created religion and all its accoutrements .
I think God was around a long time before we were. Perhaps we are God's pet and has good owners of pets will tell you, we don't own our pets.
12:32 "the only long term effect it has is to make one more likely to win a Nobel prize"
What a typical arrogant kike
"Inquisition Myths Busted"?
Did you even to bother to read any of the link that I posted MaryC? I'm guessing you didn't and tortured confessions with various torture devices and burning at the stake is well documented. Giordano Bruno is a perfect example of what happens when you went against the Vatican in 16th Century Europe.
Giordano Bruno: Rebel Monk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yljd0epjQzQ
Giordano Bruno - The Philosopher/Heretic to the Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdxOuIMBnJU
The video you posted from the Vatican representative is supposed to be an objective accounting of what really took place? It's Vatican apologetics and denial! Did you bother to watch the video? The Vatican Rep. was focusing solely on the Spanish Inquisition and with that he doesn't really debunk the supposed 'myths" of burning people at the stake for heresy or the tortured confessions.
He stated that Martin Luther and John Calvin thought that people should be put to death for heresy or blasphemy. This further adds to the indictment of the crimes of religion, particularly early Christianity.
"Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with Church dogma must be burned without pity."
- Pope Innocent III
In 1252, Pope Innocent IV officially authorized the creation of the horrifying Inquisition torture chambers. It also included anew perpetual imprisonment or death at the stake without the bishops consent. Acquittal of the accused was now virtually impossible. Thus, with a license granted by the pope himself, Inquisitors were free to explore the depths of horror and cruelty. Dressed as black-robed fiends with black cowls over their heads, Inquisitors could extract confessions from just about anyone. The Inquisition invented every conceivable devise to inflict pain by slowly dismembering and dislocating the body.
What I saw was a lurid, less than scholarly diatribe, aimed at people who crave sensationalism and to have their worst prejudices justified. The site, itself was a hodge-potch of whacked out conspiracy theories involving aliens and so forth.
Of course I watched the video, you nincompoop. The presenter said at the outset that he was focusing on the Spanish Inquisition, because that was the one most people think of.
He didn't deny that there were deaths and torture. Secular governments did, and still do, use torture.
The purpose of the video was to debunk widely believed myths about the Inquisition and the hugely exaggerated numbers involved.
"What I saw was a lurid, less than scholarly diatribe, aimed at people who crave sensationalism and to have their worst prejudices justified"
What I posted from
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm#The Church is way more scholarly than the lame video you posted.
What I see in your reply is a vague unsubstantiated claim of an unscholarly "diatribe" that was presented in the "The Horrors Of The Church and It's Holy Inquisition".
What exactly is not scholarly? You fail to cite anything specific or provide anything that is CREDIBLE which disproves exactly what is in the article posted. You're not specific at all. What exactly is "sensational"? Your "argument" uses the logical fallacies of Ad Hominem, guilt by association (because the article comes from a site that posts articles on aliens and ufos) and appeals to ridicule and lacks anything substantial. I could post the history of the early Catholic Church's manipulation and interpolations of the gospel story/New Testament.
I could post numerous Bible contradictions and inconsistencies and see how you would try to explain them. I could get very specific without engaging in ad hominem.
It was not a bit scholarly, it was biased and relied on sensationalism.
Of course the site it was posted is relevant, it is one of those kooky New Age sites that are invariably hostile to Christianity.
The makers of the video used a non-Catholic, secular sources for its information. Your article reminded me of the sort of 'atrocities' perpetrated by the Nazis dreamed up in sick Jewish imaginations.
Ok I don't believe in the Jew God or the Jew religions of Islam, Christianity or Judaism, however Hutchens was a kike who supported the Iraq War, is an admitted Marxist, is a fanatic supporter of Trotsky and Lenin and said that the Bolshevik Revolution was a necessary event in the modernisation of Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Christopher_Hitchens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Christopher_Hitchens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nfbp4DPcfQ
Well mary. Here's a *very* scholarly historical breakdown of the Christian and Roman Catholic Church's application of "Heresy Law" via early conclaves ;leading upto the Inquisition and beyond.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm
Weird how all 3 of the Abrahamic faiths appear to have a grisly history of suppressing free thought and religious choice whenever they gained political as well as spiritual control of their respective flocks.
Now, why would the Hierarchies of supposed "Christian Belief" have needed to torture and execute anyone questioning their "Authority" in the first place? Enforcing "Belief" through the application of fear and intimidation doesn't seem to be the actions of an institution pushing anything truthful.
Whilst i admire your dogmatic tenacity at attempting to defend your "Faith". The Evidence out there does rather contradict your assertations.
The purpose of the Inquisition was to root out people, ie, Jews, who were pretending to be Christian in order to gain power.
Of course, history shows that Jews have never used subterfuge in order to gain power and subvert the prevailing culture.
Oh please they allowed Jews to convert to Christianity. The people killed by the catholic church were mostly other gentiles. However I must say I am a supporter of Reconquista and Charles Martel.
Like i had to point out earlier: making authoritative claims about something doesn't make it truth.
The Church wasn't just seeking out Jews. They were suppressing anything that might make the ordinary tythe-paying person think about the motivations,sincerity and veracity of those who claimed to be "Gods representatives on Earth" at the time. There's a ton of written evidence at both the British Library,and the Vatican one too that confirms in lurid detail the practises and politics of the time. Plenty of Bishops and priests were handsomely paid off to look the other way by rich Jews too. So Criminality and Hipocracy has long been the signature of Christian authorities around the world anyway.
Christianity and its persecution of Apostates, Humanists, Pantheists Deists, Atheists and others
Before Christianity, Greek and Roman believers had been content to allow their gods to take care of themselves if they were insulted. Early Christians had taken full advantage of this tolerance to reviled those gods. But Christianity was not willing to extend the same sort of tolerance when it took over the reigns of imperial power. It was no longer permissible to believe in other gods, and neither was it permissible not to believe in God at all. No dissent or criticism could be tolerated. All citizens had to come into the Christian fold, whether they wanted to or not. To deny Christianity was to blaspheme it, and blasphemy was a crime against God.
The codification of Roman Law carried out by the Christian Emperor Justinian in the sixth century was clear. According to his Corpus Juris Civilis, famine, earthquakes and pestilence were attributable to God's wrath, induced by a failure to punish blasphemers. This was exactly the opposite of what had been believed three hundred years earlier, when Christians had been blamed for the wrath of the gods. The difference was that now the punishment for blasphemy, fixed by Justinian's code, was death. This code would be influential not only in the East but also in the West. By the time the Holy Roman Empire came into being in AD 800 such ideas were accepted throughout Europe.
Freethought, the rejection of supernatural religion, along with its assumptions and authorities, developed slowly. Dissenting voices were silenced by the threat of death, so they remained silent through the Middle Ages. The path which led to these voices being permitted to speak once again started at the Renaissance. It became possible to deny the doctrines of Christianity step by step over several centuries. We have seen that various proto-Protestant groups doubted mainstream Christian teachings from the twelfth century. Their Protestant successors denied various Roman doctrines from the sixteenth. Anabaptists and Adventists denied even more. In this section we will trace the path by which it became permissible to express even greater degrees of religious doubt, and by which people in the twentieth century came to enjoy the same freedoms that their ancestors enjoyed before the advent of Christianity.
http://www.heretication.info/_atheists.html
Dark Side of Christian History by Helen Ellerbe
https://thebibleisnotholy.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/ellerbe-the-dark-side-of-christian-history-1995.pdf
"It was not a bit scholarly, it was biased and relied on sensationalism.
Of course the site it was posted is relevant, it is one of those kooky New Age sites that are invariably hostile to Christianity.
The makers of the video used a non-Catholic, secular sources for its information. Your article reminded me of the sort of 'atrocities' perpetrated by the Nazis dreamed up in sick Jewish imaginations."
Again, you fail to cite anything specific from the article and to counter it with anything credible or factual. Your reply is yet again engaging in sophomoric logical fallacies.
Your associating this with sick Jewish imaginations about alleged "nazi atrocities" is still not addressing anything specific in the article to which you find factually erroneous. You seem to rely totally on ad hominem and appeals to ridicule rather than arguing on the merits of the argument. YOU FAIL MaryC!
Asclepius Circinus, God is the absolute that stands behind and is the foundation of His ethical laws that He has revealed to man in the scriptures through His prophets and apostles who were impressed upon by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God to pen down. They have also been revealed in a certain weak sense in nature and in the sin confused mind(heart) of man. He will bring a final accounting(judgement) upon man's deeds in accord with his ethical standards. Sins like murder is wrong because God says it is wrong. Any other reason would be subjective and unbinding.
Slavery is sin and slave traders are put in the same category as murderers, adulterers, perverts, and liars (1 Timothy 1:10).
In the Old Testament context slavery was sanctioned due to economic realities rather than racial or sexual prejudices. Because bankruptcy laws did not exist, people would voluntarily sell themselves into slavery. A craftsman could thus use his skills in servitude to discharge a debt. Even a convicted thief could make restitution by serving as a slave (Exodus 22:3).
The Bible as a whole recognizes the reality of slavery, it never promotes the practice of slavery. In fact, it was the application of biblical principles that ultimately led to the overthrow of slavery, both in ancient Israel and in the United States of America. Israel’s liberation from slavery in Egypt became the model for the liberation of slaves in general. In America, many are beginning to wake up to the liberating biblical truth that all people are created by God with innate equality (Genesis 1:27; Acts 17:26–28; Galatians 3:28).
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
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If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
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When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
...just 3 examples out of many to be found within the pages of your Book. Care to continue to preach falsehoods in the name of defending your Jew created fiction?
Whooli
What exactly were the mechanics of this revelation and inspiration of the holy spirit that was used to impress upon the so called prophets and apostles?
Did the prophets and apostles here a loud voice bellowing down at them from the sky? Were they hearing voices in their heads? How exactly did they come to believe they were in communication with god? How can we be sure this isn't a product of their imaginations?
Do you believe that men by the name of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are responsible for writing each of their gospels? If so, then why do they all contradict one another? They contradict one another on the birth of Jesus story and on the Resurrection of Jesus story and in other places as well.
Christian Dilemmas Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-lpjvexeuk
Asclepius Circinus, I don't know exactly how the Holy Spirit worked it out, nor do I need to know.
The Gospels compliment from differing perspectives not contradict.
Nice display of wilful ignorance Whooli.
You're content to maintain the lie at all costs. Well done you.
Whooli, ”Do you believe that men by the name of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are responsible for writing each of their gospels?”
foon1e, I see you found the case law regulating slavery, good job. Slavery had been Israel's position in Egypt. A person could sell himself or his wife into slavery because of poverty or debt
(2Kin.4:1,Neh.5:1-5, Amos 2:6), and an Israelite could also be sold by his father into slavery(v.7). Though the Mosaic law allowed the practice of indentured servitude, abuses were carefully limited to six years and the rights of slaves were underscored.
(1 pet.2:18)Points out that the vast majority of such servants were slaves and were treated as property. Much of the world at that time had a slavery dependent economy. Peter as others did not condemn slavery and commanded them to obey their masters. And slave owners were to treat slaves with respect and fair treatment(Eph.6:9; Col.4:1). There was to be spiritual equality for the slave in the Church Community (Gal.3:28;Col.3:1).
Slaves are to seek their freedom by lawful means(1Cor.7:21-24).
In the later 1700's the Biblical teachings helped in the attack on the institution of slavery.
Now Mr. foon1e, don't think I'm going to carry on an endless game of you throwing scripture at me that you think will prove it's falsity, ad-infinitude for me to answer. The real problem here is that you want to stand in judgement of God, His Word, and how He operates. You do this without the epistemological foundation to do so(which I have gone at length with you about in the past). Your faith in your unsupported rationality has brought you to this point of having to have somebody point this out. You are judging things without the tools to do so. You are a pretender to rationality and the sad thing is that you are so sure of your thinking that you don't even realize it.
Woodchuck, The authors of the Gospels were anonymous. Perhaps they were Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I hope to find out in the future.
Actually Whooli. The obvious fact is your last reply must have been a copy and paste job dictated to you by one of your fellow "Disco Dancing" Christians. Every reply you have come up with before has done nothing to prove the Buy-Bull is anything but a collection of contradictory hear say and Cultist nonsense.
You refuse to spend anymore time debating the essential truths here *because* it must be difficult to keep coming up with more bullshit to back up your assertions.
You're right. I could go on all day providing quotes from your book to disprove anything you say is truth. That's easy to do when the source is so Jewish and duplicitous originally.
It boils down to this "Fact": YOU support a theology created, propagated and controlled to this day worldwide by Jewish Influence. All the pretend smokescreens you can throw up to hide this fact doesn't stop other people from investigating and coming to this conclusion themselves. Congratulations on outing yourself and you fellow Christian Zionist supporters today. It needed to happen.
I love Hitchen's, nothing homo, but what a marvelous modern day Great Thinker he is and always will be.
"Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon...
You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, sh!t on the board and strut around triumphantly"
Hitchens is dead btw whooli, I'm sure in your mind that "he is burning in hell forever", what a compassionate psychopath god you have there lol. whooli would you burn your own child for a minute for disagreeing with you and for doing things that a psychopath does? if so I don't want to know you and I certainly don't want to know your evil god!
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2007/01/you-cant-argue-with-christians.html
http://godisimaginary.com/
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
http://www.evilbible.com/
http://nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm
If you want to believe in "God", that's fine. But the god of the old testament (which is also the god of the new) is a total piece of shit scum of the earth abomination. Of course that god doesn't exist and was created by the biggest pieces of shit that ever walked the earth. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the kikes created that god, not the other way around. I will give a quick example.
In Numbers 5, the mythical jew god gives the following instructions to determine if your woman has been cheating on you. Bring her before the priest and he will mix up some muddy water (literally dirt off of the floor and water). He will then say some magic words and your woman will be forced to drink this concoction. If she miscarries, she was guilty of cheating. If she does not miscarry, she was innocent. Oh by the way, it should be noted that in some translations of the old testament, it says she will miscarry, in others it says she will have the shits. Either way, this is not some misguided jew that is giving these wacky instructions. Its the jew god himself. This is the same kind of non-sense that the Christians did in the middle ages when they threw the woman into the water to see if she was a witch.
Now we have to make a decision using logic. Only one of two scenarios is possible.
1-These are in fact the instructions for determining infidelity that were given by the creator of the universe. An all powerful, all knowing being whos intellect is VASTLY superior to our own.
or
2-This is the inane babbling of desert dwelling hillbillies in Bronze Age Palestine.
Which if those two scenarios is the MOST likely? Yeah, the jews created this god, not the other way around. They created the idea of this god to bind them together with a fierce racial loyalty that has never been matched before or since. This religion and the concept of this god is the way they have been so successful at subverting the goy masses. This god rewarded any jew that did what was best for the tribe and punished any jew that did something against the tribe. Like Kevin Macdonald says, Judaism is less of a religion and more of a group evolutionary strategy and its a brilliant one.
Gentiles and especially Europeans have no business pretending to be a part of Judaism in any way shape or form. If you want to pretend like you have a relationship with a god, make it a European god. There are a bunch of them. The jew god is not only a jewish creation but according to the old testament, he is a real piece of shit who hates your gentile guts. Smarten up.
I once thought that the god of the Old Testament was evil but the god of the new was not a d that only if Christians dumped the old and kept only the new the. Christianity would thrive well... But after listening to CG I have realized you can't separate the two... As for CH I respect the mans ability to speak his mind and expose the church's hipocracy, the only problem I have with him is he never points out the talmud or koran just the bible... Since giving up on Christianity I have contemplated on what is truth and love and what's the path I should follow... And I've realized that I'm more moral more love and believe more in life, family, health and nature since giving up on religion... And leaning the truth has made me stronger, wiser and more aware of consciousness... Once conscious is the the key to living... The less concious one is the less Likey one is going to cheat steal muder... And if one does steal rob or murder for survival then your living a life of numbness and devolution... But if one gets pleasure "mostly someone who has great wealth" but steals, lies, kills for pleasure you are a demon who's existence is destruction and your spirit will not be welcomed back into this existence... Or any existance for that mater because the universe has made it so that babies are born pure innocent with the weight of evil... But love that only a mother can give... Take away the mother and father and you will have demons...
But nature won't allow it to be because the unnatural cant survive...
I only wish CH takes about the religion of sports, tv, music, celeberty worship and drug worship... How much more harmful has that been on society... Oh but that would mean he would need to look into his own religion and ridicule it... If your going to bash the religion you must bash them all equally... The ones left standing are the true religions Love Truth Family Fun Health Happiness, Healthy Traditions that harm no one... As for homosexuality it's a disorder and should be treated as one so maybe one their is a cure... And if not they should be left alone but in return they should leave the kids alone and teach it as normal... It's nothing normal when two guys get together and have anal sex... If it was it would produce a baby like nature intended... Nature must be homophobic... Truth Hurts but its the truth... The anal was created for one purpose and its not sex... Or did nature mess up? And if you say animals have gay sex too because they have seen it in a zoo... You must remember a zoo is nothing more then a animal prison... And prison's can turn a straight man gay because its unnatural. And as for the other animals in the wild who practice homosexuality it's because they are extremely horny and they can't find a mate... Dogs act out on anything that moves when in heat... We need morals and ethics but we don't need know religion to tell us so...
The truth is unverisal... Rape is Rape no mater what part of the universe you live!
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